Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V10_0/V10_066.TXT

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Subject: SPACE Digest V10 #66

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 10 : Issue 66

Today's Topics:
       Where to find GIF images of Neptune on the net.
              Re: Neptune fly-by
     Re: Galileo Jovian atmospheric probe -- is it sterilized???
            Condensed CANOPUS - July 1989
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 89 00:19:08 GMT
From: uflorida!haven!adm!nlm-mcs![e-mail]  (Michael D'Alessandro)
Subject: Where to find GIF images of Neptune on the net.

Article 7399 (209 more) in comp.graphics:
From: [e-mail] (Russ Nelson)
Subject: Voyager II images available in GIF format
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Aug 89 04:15:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Clarkson University, Postdam NY
Lines: 66
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 28 Aug 89 21:39:00 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

   Maybe someone who is in, or has contact with, JPL, can obtain some
   images that are in some universal format such as GIF, and not
   affected by cable TV noise.

Unfortunately, all I have to work with are the images from hanamura,
but they're all in gif format on grape.ecs.clarkson.edu, in /g/gif,
AKA file area 27.  The Grape info file follows this file listing.

-rw-r--r--  1 nelson     199159 Aug 28 22:49 clouds.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 nelson     149414 Aug 28 23:34 neptune1.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 nelson     199157 Aug 28 23:34 neptune2.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 nelson     202638 Aug 28 23:35 neptune3.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 nelson      67309 Aug 28 23:35 neptune4.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 nelson     222109 Aug 28 23:35 neptune5.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 nelson     172101 Aug 28 23:36 neptune6.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 nelson     170005 Aug 28 23:36 neptune7.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 nelson      54194 Aug 28 22:49 triton.gif
-rw-r--r--  1 nelson      30408 Aug 28 22:47 whole.gif

The semi-official c.b.i.p archives are on grape.ecs.clarkson.edu which
is a Zenith Z-248 running a modified version of KA9Q's TCP/IP NET that
allows you to shell out to DOS while still processing packets.  After
shelling to DOS, we run an Opus BBS.  The particulars:

FTP: grape.ecs.clarkson.edu [128.153.13.196], user anonymous, password guest.
     Look in 00readme for timely information.
     Look in /d/general/cuhug.lst for a listing of files w/ descriptions.
     Look in /c/allfiles for listings of all files.
     Look in /c/bin[0123]/*.* for c.b.i.p postings [under renovation]
     Look in /e/bin4/*.* for c.b.i.p postings [under renovation]
     Look in /d/graphics/pa.arc for Painter's Apprentice
     Look in /d/dosutil/postprn.arc for the PostScript device driver
     Look in /e/freemacs/*.* for Freemacs
     Look in /g/gif/*.gif for .GIF images.
     Look in /f/games/*.* for Simtel20's games.
Opus: 260/360 in the Nodelist.  [phone], 8N1, 1200/2400 Baud, 24 hours.
     Look in file area 7 for PostPrn.
     Look in file area 12 for Painter's Apprentice
     Look in file area 23 for Simtel20's games.
     Look in file area 25 for Freemacs
     Look in file area 26,28,29,30 for c.b.i.p postings.
     Look in file area 27 for .GIF images.

Submitting files to grape by FTP:

You can just put the file where you believe it belongs.  Note that you
cannot overwrite files, so if you want to update something, you need
to change the name.  Send mail to root if you need to delete or
overwrite a file.

To help us keep the 'files.bbs' up to date, we need a .DSC file.  This
file should have its first line be a one-line description less than 40
characters in length.  The rest of the file (no more than ten lines)
can be a more verbose description.  Either put the file in the arc, or
else in the same subdir as the arc.

This archive system is brought to you by the students of Clarkson University.
The Clarkson computer club, CUHUG, maintains this FTP site and BBS.

Mail questions to [e-mail]
--
--russ (nelson@clutx [.bitnet | .clarkson.edu])|([e-mail])|
       ([e-mail])|([e-mail] :-)
--
Michael D'Alessandro M.D.
The National Library of Medicine
Lister Hill National Center for Biomedical Communications
Educational Technology Branch            Internet:  [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 89 16:55:37 GMT
From: hplabsb![e-mail]  (David Smith)
Subject: Re: Neptune fly-by

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Terry Hancock) writes:
>    Curiously enough, though, Galileo WILL go to Venus on its way
>to Jupiter.  If I'm not mistaken, Galileo will beat Magellan to Venus
>despite its later launch, since it will have a higher encounter velocity
>for gravity assist reasons (while Magellan will have a low encounter
>velocity, allowing it to be captured into Venus orbit).

Magellan would have been better off being launched in December, but NASA
can't launch two shuttles that close together.  Galileo got first call on
the preferred window, since it relies on alignments of Earth, Venus, and
Jupiter.  Magellan then got relegated into a launch window which would take
it as quickly to Venus' orbit, but not when Venus is in that part of its
orbit.  But Venus will be there when Magellan gets there for the second
time, one orbit later.

Someone recently asked about how Galileo could get enough gravitational
assist from an asteroid to swing it back to Earth.  It doesn't get much
gravitational effect: it would get back to Earth without the asteroid.
The asteroids are targets of opportunity along the way.  The Venus flyby
swings Galileo back to Earth along a path to obtain the right boost from
Earth.  The first Earth flyby (12/90) pumps Galileo up into a 2-year orbit.
Then the second Earth flyby (12/92) swings it out to Jupiter.
asteroids
--

            David R. Smith, HP Labs
            [e-mail]
            [phone]

------------------------------

Date: 12 Sep 89 05:30:39 GMT
From: silver![e-mail]  (Lucius Chiaraviglio)
Subject: Re: Galileo Jovian atmospheric probe -- is it sterilized???

[Note:  I don't get sci.astro]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Keith Elliston) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (nick szabo) writes:
[Identity of ">> >" poster in this section of message unknown]
>I just wanted to add a few comments from a biologist's point of view....

    Following are some more comments, from another biologist's point of
view.

>> >A number of experts believe that despite the harsh
>> >environment of outer space, a large colony of earth
>> >microorganisms will survive the journey to Jupiter in the
>> >interior of the spacecraft.
>
>Many microorganisms, especially fungi, have a physiological mechanism for
>dealing with temporary nutrient starvation and generally inhospitable environs.
>This state is called a spore.  Fungal and bacterial spores can survive some of
>themost extreme environmental states....  for example, some fungal spores can
>survive autoclaving (121 degrees C, 15-18 psi) for prolonged periods.  I can
>easily imagine such spores surviving a journey through space.

    And these organisms are also quite good at surviving irradiation.  It
has been said before by some of the posters whom I am following up (and in
other messages), but it should be restated at the beginning of the message:
bacterial spores survived for several years on a supposedly sterile Surveyor
lander on the moon.

>Also, it should be noted that there do exist bacteria that grow only using
>Hydrogen sulfide for energy,

    Minor quibble:  they also need something to react the hydrogen sulfide
with, such as Fe/Fe(2+)/FeS (reactions with these are exergonic) or carbon
dioxide (additional energy, such as light, is required to drive this reaction).

>                             and other species that live at high temps on
>the steam vents at the bottom of the oceans.  If there is an environment that
>can be found on earth, there are organisms that can be found growing there.

    Minor quibble:  I haven't heard of anything found growing in glowing
lava lakes.  :-)  . . . yet.  8-)

>> >Although conditions on Jupiter are very different from
>> >earth, the planet's atmosphere includes clouds of liquid water at
>> >temperatures at which earth microbes could survive and grow.
>>
>> What about necessary proteins, minerals, vitamins, etc.?   What about
>> the updrafts/downdrafts and temperature extremes?   Have any experiments
>> performed or was this just a research paper?
>
>This is interesting.....  First, I think that it is possible for bacteria to
>adapt to almost any temperature condition...  and if a reasonable temperature
>range exists, then we can expect microbes (bacteria and fungi) to survive,
>and possibley prosper.  The question of nutrients....  As long as the 4 majors
>are there...Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen and Hydrogen, I think life could adapt.
>Since I am not an astronomer (or astrophysicist), I am not sure if these
>elements are available in the jovian atmosphere... but if there are, well,
>Life could persist.

    I don't think it would be easy -- in fact it would be very difficult
if not impossible -- for known terrestrial life to adapt to the absence of
several other elements.  While it is true that carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and
hydrogen are the most abundant elements in terrestrial life, phosphorus and
sulfur aren't exactly minor elements.  Phosphorus is an essential component of
nucleic acids and phosphorylated compounds (including but not limited to free
nucleotide polyphosphates), and sulfur is a constituent of two of the 20
"standard" amino acids as well as several other vital compounds.  Salts must
also be present, and monovalent element salts constitute a significant
fraction of the weight of terrestrial living matter, while divalent metal
salts are present in smaller amounts but still vital to some very fundamental
processes of terrestrial life.  Note that these elements do not need to be
present as familiar compounds of life (proteins, vitamins, etc.) for some
organisms to be able to use them -- many organisms can make anything they need
as long as they are given the elements to make them with along with an energy
source (possibly present in the form in which the elements are stored).

    It has been a long time since I read an article about the composition
of the Jovian atmosphere, and much (if not all) of what I remember is
pre-Pioneer and all of it is certainly pre-Voyager.  However, I do remember
that carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, and sulfur are present in the Jovian
atmosphere.  I have no data about the amounts of other elements in the Jovian
atmosphere, although it does not seem impossible that some or all of these
might be present in amounts too small to detect by Earth-based spectroscopy
as dust in the lower atmosphere, which could be hydrated to salt solution
droplets in the upper atmosphere (anyone have any better information on
this?).

    I should point out that some terrestrial microbes are capable of
growing by using extremely low concentrations of the vital elements, and that
they are capable of using these elements in many forms.  As one who has found
mold growing in highly purified water, I can testify to this; from a
professor of microbiology at Indiana University I learned that mold can grow
even in water that has been purified to homogeneity, because as soon as it
comes in contact with the air it is no longer absolutely pure due to the
presence of organic compound vapors in the air which dissolve in it, and also
because very small amounts of various compounds leach out of the plastic or
glass of the container, and the mold (and also some bacteria) are capable of
using these various compounds.

>> >Even if the microbes could not survive on their own, the Sagan
>> >paper suggests they could find a supportive environment inside
>> >native organisms on the planet.
>
>This assumes that life is present on the planet...  Not argueable at this
>point..

    It would be nice to find this out before we introduce life there, even
though the probability of its long-term survival there seems low (because I
don't think we have enough data to say for certain that this probability is
zero).

>> In article <[e-mail]>
>> [e-mail] (Wayne Hayes) writes:
>> >irresponsible mistake, to launch the atmospheric probe.  In the remote
>> >possibility that Jupiter's atmosphere harbors indigenous life, we may
>> >pollute the atmosphere with Earth's life and never know for sure whether
>> >the life we later discover is in fact indigenous.
>>
>> It will be very easy to discriminate life native to Jupiter or other
>> planets from Earth life, just as it is easy to distinguish bats from
>> birds, or prokaryotes from eukaryotes.  Earth life consists of only
>> a minscule fraction of possible DNA combinations (something like
>> 10^14/4^10,000=1/10^5,986).  Even if we go wild with the Drake equation,
>> and assume DNA is the only possible structure for life, there will be
>> no repititions, or even anything close, to Earth life anywhere else in
>> our galaxy.
>
>It would be a good idea to explain your numbers...  I assume that 4^10,000
>has something to do with the number of base pairs of DNA in something...
>but I really can't figure out what this means...

    I think that what Nick Szabo (if I haven't mixed up my poster
identities by this point :-P) is trying to say is that the information of
content of DNA is so large that the probability of independantly-evolved life
having sequences significantly homologous (that is, beyond the background
homology found between any two random sequences) is astronomically small.

[A considerable amount in which I agree with Keith's comments deleted]
>Now... to introduce another thought....
[Some more that I don't agree with deleted to reduce the amount of material
inappropriate for sci.space/sci.astro]

>Life does not seem to require DNA or RNA or Protein... in myu opinion.  It only
>requires some organized way to form structures that can catalyzed chemical
>reactions, and a way to store and modify the information needed to make there
>structures.

    This sounds reasonable, although none of the compounds on the probe
other than microbial spores are likely to be able to do this.

>             If we send ina ready made system... RNA or DNA and Proteins,
>perhaps they can start evolution all over again, in a manner that can survive
>in the vastly different environs found on other planets.

    These molecules are reasonably stable for the purposes of the
terrestrial life made up of them, but are really fragile out by themselves,
and are not capable of starting or sustaining life by themselves, even in an
environment like the legendary and probably fictitious "prebiotic soup"
of the oceans of ancient earth.  In other words, it is valid to worry about
sending whole microbes to Jupiter, but you don't need to worry about the
non-microbial components of finger grease.

|   Lucius Chiaraviglio    |    Internet:  [e-mail]
BITNET:  [e-mail] (IUBACS hoses From: fields; INCLUDE RET ADDR)
Internet-gatewayed BITNET:      [e-mail]
Alt Internet-gatewayed BITNET:  [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 12 Sep 89 21:57:52 GMT
From: frooz!cfashap![e-mail]  (Steve Willner)
Subject: Condensed CANOPUS - July 1989


Here is the condensed CANOPUS for July 1989.  There is one article
condensed and 3 articles are give by title only.  CANOPUS is
copyright American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, but
distribution is encouraged.  See full copyright information at end.

NASA, CANADIANS TO FLY PLASMA INVESTIGATION ON OMV MISSION -
can890701.txt - 7/14/89  {condensed}

NASA is planning to fly the Canadian portion of the Waves in Space
Plasmas (WISP) investigation during the demonstration flight of the
Orbital Maneuvering Vehicle (OMV).  The maiden voyage of the OMV, a
remotely controlled, reusable "space tug" designed to perform a
number of tasks including maneuvering other spacecraft on orbit, is
currently scheduled for launch aboard the Space Shuttle Endeavour in
1993.

The three-part, high-frequency WISP (WISP-HF) is being developed by
the National Research Council of Canada.  The investigation will
measure the interaction of an antenna with the tenuous upper
atmosphere that has been transformed into a plasma -- a gas of
charged particles -- by sunlight and other effects.  This layer is
called the ionosphere.

WISP-HF is the high-frequency portion of a collaborative
U.S.-Canadian investigation that was scheduled to be flown on Space
Plasma Lab.  These missions were delayed indefinitely as one of the
results of the Challenger accident.  {Some of the US experiments have
been flown on sounding rockets.}

----------------OTHER ARTICLES BY TITLE ONLY-------------------------

NASA LOSES MORE MANAGERS; LEE NAMED TO HEAD MARSHALL - can890702.txt
- 7/14/89
MAGELLAN WEEKLY STATUS - can890703.txt - 7/11/89
VOYAGER STATUS REPORT - can890704.txt - 7/11/89

----------------END OF CONDENSED CANOPUS-----------------------------

This posting represents my own condensation of CANOPUS.  For clarity,
I have not shown ellipses (...), even when the condensation is
drastic.  New or significantly rephrased material is in {braces} and
is signed {--SW} when it represents an expression of my own opinion.
The unabridged CANOPUS is available via e-mail from me at any of the
addresses below.

Copyright information:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CANOPUS is published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and
Astronautics.  Send correspondence about its contents to the executive
editor, William W. L. Taylor ([e-mail];
e-mail to [e-mail] will probably be forwarded).  Send
correspondence about business matters to Mr. John Newbauer, AIAA,
1633 Broadway, NY, NY 10019.  Although AIAA has copyrighted CANOPUS
and registered its name, you are encouraged to distribute CANOPUS
widely, either electronically or as printout copies.  If you do,
however, please send a brief message to Taylor estimating how many
others receive copies.  CANOPUS is partially supported by the
National Space Science Data Center.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Willner            Phone [phone]         Bitnet:   willner@cfa
60 Garden St.            FTS:      830-7123           UUCP:   willner@cfa
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA                 Internet: [e-mail]

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V10 #66
*******************